JFK: The Shot That Shattered America

In this episode, we break down the assassination of President John F. Kennedy—what happened in Dallas, who benefited, and why the official story still doesn’t add up. From Oswald’s strange past to Jack Ruby’s fatal intervention and the mysteries buried in classified files, we explore the evidence, the theories, and the questions that refuse to die.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:54

Alright, everybody, welcome back to another episode of Obscurecast. Today we're actually doing an episode in person. So I'm actually at Dan's house and we're doing an episode, I think our first episode in person, right?

SPEAKER_02 1:07

Yeah, this would be our first one.

SPEAKER_00 1:08

So it's gonna be a little bit more of a in-person dynamic. So we're gonna be able to actually see each other and that kind of stuff. So it'll be interesting. It's something that we're gonna try every now and then. If I'm able to make it up here, he's able to make it down to me and uh see if that becomes a little bit more of an interesting dynamic as we can actually see each other and not over a webcam or anything like that. So that's pretty cool. Yeah. Um but today we're getting into a pretty controversial topic. There's been tons of tons of speculation, there's been tons of research done, there's been tons of cover-up done that's been out and all that kind of stuff, and something that's come out really just in the past year been fully disclosed, right? Is am I right in sort of to release the documents, yeah. Yeah, so today we're sort of talking about we we've done a couple conspiracy theories on I think we've done some alien ones, we've done some stuff on ancient civilizations and that kind of shit. Um but today we're getting into something a little bit weirder, um, and a little bit more of a conspiracy theory from like a killing point of view, an assassination. So today we're talking we're gonna be talking about and going through a little bit sort of the timeline and sort of what led up to this and all that kind of stuff. So getting to the topic, what we're talking about is JFK's assassination back in 63, right? Yeah, November 22nd. Um very, very, very controversial topic, very conspiracy theory topic. Um, but we're gonna try to sort of envelop the whole episode and sort of give you the big picture as well as maybe some things you didn't know about it. We actually watched a really interesting documentary uh directed by Oliver Stone. Um if you guys don't know who Oliver Stone is, very, very reputable director, has done a lot of really, really, really impressive movies involving, you know, sort of that whole time period dealing with Vietnam and all that kind of stuff. He actually was a trilogy. So Born on the Fourth of July, Platoon, and I'm blanking on the third, I think it was Heaven and Earth, I believe is what it was called. I think that's the trilogy, but we'll fact check that and make sure. But those two are for sure, and I think the last one is called Heaven and Earth, anyways. It deals with that time period and sort of what was going on during that whole ordeal of the Vietnam War. So I guess the first thing is that if people that were alive for the JFK assassination obviously remember where they were, it was a pretty pivotal time in America's history. I mean, it was during a lot of military conflict and stuff that was sort of shifting the narrative of the United States in general, wouldn't you agree?

SPEAKER_02 3:42

Yeah, I think my dad told me he was I think he was in like elementary school or something like that. He was in the middle of class.

SPEAKER_00 3:51

So it was kind of like, I mean, the best thing that we can probably attribute it to would be like as far as a catastrophic event, something that sort of changed the course of history would be like 9-11 for us. Or something to that effect. I mean, it's obviously not in the same ballpark, but it's eventually something that led to war and all sorts of stuff that sort of changed the course of history.

SPEAKER_02 4:14

Yeah, and I mean it it affected. It affected e-comm, it affected foreign relations, all that kind of thing. At a global level. It wasn't just you know, it was a global thing, so yeah, 100%.

SPEAKER_00 4:26

So like I said, those of you if you listen to us and were old enough to remember the Kennedy assassination, you obviously know that it was a big pivotal point in history. I guess the biggest pivotal question that I would have for you is why do you think it's so important sixty plus years later? Why do you think it's still a pertinent topic?

SPEAKER_02 4:48

Well, I think especially like having just watched that documentary that we just watched, like you see how they handled it with the Warren Commission and everything.

SPEAKER_00 4:58

Yeah, there was a lot of like and then in nine then what ninety two, ninety-three, they open it back up and review it and like Well, it's not only it's not that it's been opened one or two times, it's been reopened and examined from every angle multiple times.

SPEAKER_02 5:14

Yeah, and I mean we'll get into it, but like the the fact that the was it the FBI or CIA they destroyed.

SPEAKER_00 5:20

Well, even like we'll get into all the destroying of the documents and the cover-up and stuff, but I think what's really telling with the whole thing in general was the whole conviction of the pertinent man in the entire ordeal that was said to have been responsible for the assassination was inconsistent. Well, it wasn't inconsistent. Well, that well, that too, but I think the really weird thing is that he was presided over for the sentencing of what happened to him by essentially politicians. Yeah. It wasn't a jury of his peers, it had nothing to do with like a formal trial or due process. I thought that was really interesting. Very interesting. And it makes makes the whole ordeal just from that point of view very eerie.

SPEAKER_02 6:04

Like it's not you're not following the norm of due process, like you're not following the norm for that, and I think when you see how the timeline, not just for Lee Harvey Oswald and the whole, you know, the school book house and stuff like that, like the depository, yeah. The depository and going down the steps and and like whatever.

SPEAKER_00 6:26

Also, how they handled Kennedy's autopsy and the timeline for that stuff, and the well, it wasn't just the uh like the timeline, but it was the physical evidence that they had to deal with and all that kind of stuff, and the stuff from the bullet forensics and all that kind of stuff that we watch, which like I said, we'll get into all that, but a lot of it is just sort of set up for what we're getting at. Like it goes it goes a lot deeper than even both of us knew, and we know a little bit about it, but we it we didn't understand how far it went.

SPEAKER_02 6:56

Like there's so much. I think that's what it is too.

SPEAKER_00 7:00

And that was what a two and a half, three hour documentary, probably about two, two and a half, two and a half hours or so. I mean, they probably still didn't get to most of it. Oh from how deep it was from just what we saw, it was pretty insane.

SPEAKER_02 7:14

You could do a season, a series. I still wouldn't get all the seasons. You could do a series off that. I mean, I thought it was done very well. Oh, it was phenomenal.

SPEAKER_00 7:24

It was just it was a lot, it was a lot, it was intense, and it went really deep. Like it went to stuff that I didn't I had no idea even existed. Yeah, neither did I. Yeah, but I think that was the craziest part about it, is how in depth it was. Yeah. Um a lot of the misnomers, a lot of the misconceptions about the assassination were like the like Lee Harvey Oswald was like the lone gunman, and it was orchestrated by him and only him and that kind of stuff, so that's kind of murky. His his connection to the CIA Well, that's what I was I'm just sort of doing the quick teases of what we're getting into. So like the CIA is a big question mark, mafia, mafia is a big question mark. Um why do you think that it's so prominent sixty years later? I think it w I mean anytime you have like a public execution like that where and we just had let's let's just sit let's just pigeonhole it to the city of Dallas. Like who wasn't there for that motorcade? Like I think it was such a public event and that so many people were witness to it. It's kind of like, you know, it's it's sort of a black mark in our history that'll never go away. Without a doubt. Like it was like, you know, it's like the Malcolm X assassination or Martin Luther King. Like it was it was at such a pivotal time in America for stuff that was going on. Civil Rights Act. We were in the we were in the we were on the brink or in the brink of the Vietnam War. It was the civil rights stuff, like I said.

SPEAKER_02 8:56

And you're in the Cold War.

SPEAKER_00 8:57

Right. Like it tensions are high. It was a it was sort of a pressure cooker for not just us, but everybody. The world. Because it we we were on the verge of doing something really drastic. Yeah. Um but I think that I think all of that sort of created like a pressure cooker effect where like you can't you can't dismiss it as just like another assassination. There was just so much going on that was pivotal for not just us but globally, yeah. That it it was amplified. So that that's not just like okay, president got killed, that's bad. But now what? You know what I mean? Like we have all this stuff on the table, all this stuff that's gonna happen, and we don't have a commander-in-chief, and then we have to swear in Johnson and Who, by the way. Right, like it gets really deep and really murky. Yeah, it gets really deep and it's the opposite way that Kennedy Yeah, it gets really deep and really murky, and it's gonna be an interesting conversation, but like all that sort of stuff, like those four points, like Oswald being the lone gunman, CIA having a hand in it, the mafia having a hand in it, probably having to do with the the man that eventually shot Oswald outside that the police station where he was being housed. Yeah. All of that sort of ties into it, so it's gonna be interesting. But yeah, one of the main things that we wanted to talk about, and I wanted to ask you, based on what we've seen, based on what you know personally, just you, not me influencing anything like that, just a your your take on it as well as the documentary we saw. Do you think he acted alone? Do you think it was just a spur of the moment thing? I think I know how you're gonna answer the question, but I want to pose the question to you regardless. Was he just a lone gunman that wanted him out of the picture for whatever reason, whether it was political or anything, or do you think it was orchestrated by whoever and why so much of it was classified? Why do you think that was? So, where do you sort of bend on the issue of lone gunman versus it being orchestrated and why, if you go with the orchestrated route, why do you think so much of it was classified and covered up?

SPEAKER_02 11:04

For that exact reason. I I there there's no way that Lee Harvey Oswald was a lone gunman. There there's just there's too much. I mean, you know, you see in the documentary that he's clearly working with the CIA. He was an informant for when he went over to Russia. Yeah, he defected to Russia, but there's evidence that shows that he was actually a CIA working with the CIA over there to be an informant. He had so many ties to people. He was the fall guy. He was the guy that they were gonna pin it on because I just learned something new tonight. I didn't realize that the Chicago thing.

SPEAKER_00 11:45

Yeah, then not only that one, but there was another one that we saw too. There was another Tampa. Tampa, that's what it was. They had a guy in Tampa. There was another fall guy that looked I mean they all these three guys like three names, the similarities that they showed was a little uncanny. It's almost like they were carbon copies of each other.

SPEAKER_02 12:06

They weren't exact matches, but they were somebody if you saw quick their backgrounds were like so similar.

SPEAKER_00 12:12

But like if you saw them really quick on the street, you'd be like, Yeah, that's dude. Yeah. You know what I mean? The Tampa guy was a little it was a little off, but the the Thomas Arthur Valley guy and Lee Oswald looked almost identical. They were very, very, very similar. Yeah, yeah. You could I mean if you looked at their pictures quick or looked at them on the street quick and just gave them a glance, you'd have thought they were the same guy.

SPEAKER_02 12:33

Yeah. Um, I don't believe in the magic bolt at all from a lot of the research that I've done. You know, they said it towards the end of the documentary, like there were m you could hear multiple shots. And the way watching that film, and I hate seeing it, but every time I see it, you you and I play not that it's real, but we play enough like Call of Duty and Battlefield and like we've sh they get it pretty good the mechanics of someone getting shot. Yeah, right?

SPEAKER_01 13:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 13:07

If you're standing behind someone and you shoot them in the back of the fucking head, where's their head go? Forward? Yeah. His head goes like back, like that. Yeah. Like in the magic bullet that it goes through seven different appendages.

SPEAKER_00 13:24

Like Yeah, that's a little wild.

SPEAKER_02 13:26

Dude, there's no no way.

SPEAKER_00 13:29

Whether it was a multiple shot or it was shot from two different directions or three directions, I mean there were multiple people involved.

SPEAKER_02 13:37

Like he, you know, he was gonna shut down the CIA. He literally was shutting down the Federal Reserve and the military industrial complex he wanted to get rid of. That's like the three food groups for all the you know corrupt shit going on, and he was gonna get rid of all that. Like you said, you know, Kennedy did a lot of great things, and he was a great leader, but at the same time, he had his own entanglements. You know, he had his own shit and he was involved with the ma you know, there's he was tied with the mafia, which back then who wasn't who had any power. It's true. You know what I mean? Like they like it was different times. You don't get to that position without being around some questionable people and doing some questionable things, I think.

SPEAKER_00 14:28

I mean talk about politicians, dude. Everybody's got their dirty luggage. Everybody's got their dirty luggage in in real life, too. So it's not like Yeah, 100%. We're not passing any judgment, but at the same time, if you're a political leader, especially of the United States. I would say he was a less piece of shit than most. That's fair.

SPEAKER_02 14:48

You know what I mean? Like he was he's he at least did some really great shit.

SPEAKER_00 14:53

Or wanted to.

SPEAKER_02 14:54

Or wanted to. He did some. He didn't get enough time to do all of it.

SPEAKER_00 14:58

It was as because he was assassinated in the third year of his term, right? Going into four? I think so. Is that right? I because he was in he was he was he was inaugurated in sixty, right?

SPEAKER_02 15:08

Uh he was inaugurated in yes, I believe so. Okay. If he doesn't get assassinated, does do we still go into Vietnam?

SPEAKER_00 15:22

The world looks very different if he's not assassinated based on what he was trying to do. Oh, so well it's uh this is the this is the part that some people will probably turn away from, but at the same time, you have to call it out. There was a lot of what he was doing that would have like the central there were a lot of people that had vetted interest in what was going on. He would have changed the landscape of all of that. Yeah. And they obviously, you know, in hindsight, didn't want any of that. Like I said, we've sort of come through the information and it seemed like he knew sort of of what was happening behind the scenes. I mean, they talked about the fact that he and his brother Robert, RFK, were you know very in tune at that that they that they had been lied to.

SPEAKER_02 16:13

Yeah. Um which is why you want to shut down CIA.

SPEAKER_00 16:16

We're not even talking about just the CIA though, like we're talking about government in general.

SPEAKER_02 16:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 16:21

Um and military. Right. But I think with Eisenhower being such a pr prominent military figure, they saw that as the only strength that made sense.

SPEAKER_02 16:36

Well, you gotta think too, military industrial complex relatively still. Right.

SPEAKER_00 16:41

But what I'm saying is if you're talking about Eisenhower, who was president before Kennedy, had put a lot of things in place that had made not only monetary stuff easier, but like policy easier for the people that had vetted interest in what was going on.

SPEAKER_02 16:56

Does that make sense? And Truman kind of pushed that before Eisenhower.

SPEAKER_00 17:00

Sure, but what I'm saying is he came into a no-win situation. He came into a situation where he was trying to make positive changes, he was coming into a situation that everything was already sort of in place. Yeah, everything was sort of wheels were turning already, and he wanted to throw a big wrench in it.

SPEAKER_02 17:16

Yeah. Um so do you so what basically what you're saying is if he didn't get killed in Dallas, he probably would have been taken out.

SPEAKER_00 17:22

Uh at some point. At some point. He was doing too much that altered the status quo. That does that answer your question? Yeah. Yeah. So like essentially what he was doing was he was breaking the mold, and that didn't sit well with certain people that inevitably, from what we saw in the research that you and I have done, those are the exact people that wanted him gone, and he's gone now. Like it went according to plan.

SPEAKER_02 17:47

Yeah, and then they just covered everything up.

SPEAKER_00 17:49

And then they they made, you know, not only did they cover it up, they changed medical records, they changed photographs of the autopsy. They all the shit.

SPEAKER_02 17:59

Gerald Gerald Ford like changing the impact of the bullet. Yeah. Like, what? I thought that was like how do you even do like how can you let somebody who wasn't?

SPEAKER_00 18:14

Like he basically rewrote the autopsy report from what we saw.

SPEAKER_02 18:18

Yeah. But like it wasn't just him. Like several times it got changed, right?

SPEAKER_00 18:25

I mean, when they were going through the when they were going through the, what did they call it, the assassination review board? Was that what it was?

SPEAKER_02 18:32

I think so, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:33

They w from what we saw on there, there were like four or five hearings that went through as far as what had happened and the the causes of everything and the trajectory of the bullet and you name it, they probably went over it four or five times, brought it back to square one, and we're like, hey, let's run this through again. Is everything the same? Oh shit, four, five, and six are wrong. That you know, that's gonna have an effect on seven, eight, and nine.

SPEAKER_02 18:58

Well, and then they had a full intact brain.

SPEAKER_00 19:02

Yeah, that's like yeah. The stuff with the autopsy stuff was really interesting because I knew nothing about all of that being changed and all of that being circumvented, and I would probably went through, and then you have autopsy reports where people lose their notes, or they're not signing off an official autopsy reports. Like, that's just standard protocol, I would think. I don't I'm not a doctor, but they didn't even have doctors that were did autopsies. That was the other crazy thing was the the the naval for the autopsy, the naval medical center that they transported his body to after they did it at Parkland, which is where he was originally taken for treatment, and then they took him to that na I can't remember the naval medical center they took him to where it's at, but anyways, they had they had autopsy doctors that performed the autopsy that had never done a bullet wound. Not just a not just a bullet wound, period, let alone on somebody's head. Right. Which I would I would think if you're coming from a medical perspective It's the president. Well, it's the president, but like it's different than getting shot on the chest. Like it it's gonna cause a lot of damage.

SPEAKER_02 20:11

Well, I mean, a shot's way different than a stab or like a fall or like an impact or like it it's gonna cause a lot of damage.

SPEAKER_00 20:18

Like it's not just gonna be a f an intact dragon.

SPEAKER_02 20:22

Right.

SPEAKER_00 20:22

If you got shot regardless whether it was a graze or anything else, it would have been evident. Yeah like you wouldn't it's it's undeniable that I think that an intact brain with no no no no wound, no exit wound, no graze, no nothing would be plausible for anybody to say that hey, this is legitimate.

SPEAKER_02 20:43

So from my understanding, they try to say that the magic bullet was the only uh dot that he took, basically.

SPEAKER_00 20:51

Yeah, so essentially they said that it went through diff it went through an obviously uh cadence of events. So like it went through Kennedy, it went through um what's Connelly, what's his name? Connolly, the congressman that got hit in the front seat. Yeah. Um but it went through like four different iterations with the same shot. The thing's gonna slow down, dude.

SPEAKER_02 21:14

So are they saying he didn't get shot in the head at all, and that's why they like covered it up?

SPEAKER_00 21:18

That's where the that's where the disconnect is, right? Because you have people changing the narrative.

SPEAKER_02 21:23

People like how many people have they when they interviewed him said, yeah, well, I think even the conjugman that got the contrastman that got hit.

SPEAKER_00 21:31

I think they even testified in the documentary you and I watched. He's like, There's no way. Yeah, it went through one person and then decided that it was gonna ramp up again and go through somebody else. Like it bullets lose trajectory if it hits something, like that's just physics.

SPEAKER_02 21:45

Yeah, and they showed how many tests that they did.

SPEAKER_00 21:48

And then you have to account for like bullet drop and shit like that. So, like if he hit him, like obviously, if anybody knows, if anybody doesn't know, like the the person that shot him will just leave it as person because it's up for. Debate about obviously. It was shot from a six-story window, right?

SPEAKER_01 22:04

Allegedly, yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:07

And then we got the grassy knoll and all that kind of stuff where he might have been shot from another place and all that kind of stuff. Anyways, he's shooting from a six-story building, okay? That obviously has trajectory to go down because it's working with gravity, right? So it's gonna be faster than if you just hit a straight shot. It's gonna take gravity into effect and Coriolis and all that kind of shit.

SPEAKER_01 22:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:25

Even if it's got the gravity on its side, if it hits matter, car, brain, tissue, bone, whatever, it's gonna slow down. Yeah. Maybe not to a stop, but it's not gonna pass through that. Hit a seat. Seven points. You get what I'm saying? It's not gonna hit him, shoot through a seat, shoot through a wristbone, and then exit a car.

SPEAKER_02 22:52

Like well, no, so it it supposedly hit the wristbone and then shot out there and went into the guy's thigh over here. And then stopped.

SPEAKER_00 23:03

And then stopped. Yeah, I that's that's a little far-fetched. Just based on what I know about just general knowledge of bullet trajectory and what bullets do. Like the other thing, too, that was crazy is that there was no in the bullet, from what we saw, the bullet that they entered into the record had no damage to it. No damage. It was completely and utterly intact. There was no bluntness to it, there was no nothing.

SPEAKER_02 23:29

Like it had never been shot.

SPEAKER_00 23:30

Right.

SPEAKER_02 23:31

Like it just came out of the shell casing. Not only that, this is 63, we're talking about.

SPEAKER_00 23:37

Oh, we're not talking about high anti-screen. It's not a high-end ammo that, like the dude if he did buy it where they said he bought it, the fucking gun was $20, dude. Well, I mean, back then going to the city. I'm just saying, but like it's a high-powered military issue rifle. Like, dude, it's gonna you know what I mean? Like, it it's it's not bad technology, but at the same time, it's nothing like what we have now. Right.

SPEAKER_02 24:03

With hollow points. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:05

It's not even close to it.

SPEAKER_02 24:06

No. Yeah, I the other thing that was interesting in the documentary, they showed the gun that he ordered and then the pictures that his wife or girlfriend took of him holding the supposed same gun, but the straps on it were different. The location of the the strap holders, weird. And it was a new gun, and if you look at the picture, that gun that's supposed well, they said the length was like four inches longer.

SPEAKER_00 24:34

Yeah, from the one that they did yeah, from stock to barrel tip, they did that's like four or five inches longer. Yeah, that was kind of wild too. So um, but the strap thing was kind of telling too, because they showed three pictures, and the one he had, there were two differences that I noticed that they touched on was he was wearing his wedding ring on his left hand. Yes. And then the other one was the straps, like the the contact points where the straps were. Or on the side. Right. And then when they asked him about it, one, he's wearing a completely different outfit. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 25:10

Number two, he didn't the ring, and then the other hand.

SPEAKER_00 25:13

And then he didn't remember the picture being taken.

SPEAKER_02 25:15

He's like, Yeah, I don't remember that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:18

So that like because the first two pictures we saw, I think he was in a white shirt. Third picture where he was in a black. Colored black shirt, yeah. Yeah. So, or dark colored shirt. So but let's get into some topics about sort of so we can sort of set the scene for why it happened and what the buildup to it was. I wanted to sort of talk about like JFK's background and sort of what he was for with his whole like political outlook. So what I wanted to start with first was like the the the Bay of Pig stuff, the Cuban Missile Crisis stuff, and then also the Cold War tensions that were sort of building up. Basically, we were on the verge of nuclear war. We're also getting into stuff with Vietnam that had been precedented before he had ever gotten in office, yeah, and all that kind of stuff. So he was being sort of pressured into war and nuclear arms and all that kind of stuff, and he sort of took a step back, at least from what I saw, and I want to get your viewpoint on this too.

SPEAKER_02 26:14

Well, and Fidel Castro pledge allegiance to the USSR.

SPEAKER_00 26:18

Right. So he was sort of dealing with multiple entities at the same time wanting military power and doing these all these sorts of stuff. So I want to get your viewpoint on what was the harm in trying to have peace. And I I like I said, I think I know where you'll go with this one, but I want to get your point of view before I say mine. Yeah. Because I think we're gonna sort of align on the same tip. Okay. Um what do you think the reasoning was for the assassination based on what he wanted? Why do you think that was a plausible, I guess, plausible reaction to what he was doing? Why did it happen? Because of what he was trying to do with all of that stuff. Where do you sit on that?

SPEAKER_02 27:05

I mean look at the military industrial complex. If there's peace, okay, they're not gonna be making money. The government contracts with Lockheed Martin and with Boeing and with you know all those government contractors, war is good business. You have the military-industrial complex where they have to have war. So to have this overwhelming push for world peace where he's gonna pull forces out of Vietnam, right? Not just individuals, but they were pulling units and from Vietnam. I mean, he was getting what peace in in Egypt, France, all over.

SPEAKER_00 27:51

So from the if you're Lockheed Martin, if you get into the whole government contracting stuff, which we saw about earlier, and something something different, but yeah. Yeah. That's the thing, is that wars cost money, and you're only making money if unfortunately wars are going to plan.

SPEAKER_02 28:12

And if you fuck with people's money, yeah, it gets real dicey.

SPEAKER_00 28:17

That's their only motivation.

SPEAKER_02 28:20

Here's another question, too, to think about. Like we had talked about earlier, and you you had said to me before we even started that you know, Kennedy had ties to the mafia. Gotta think back then, mafia probably tied to military industrial complex and some of these.

SPEAKER_00 28:34

I'm sure there was some interest, but yeah, I mean, like I don't want to make him out to be a bad person because he did a lot of good things, especially from what we saw. He was trying to do a lot of really good things.

SPEAKER_02 28:44

He has some questionable personal life decisions.

SPEAKER_00 28:46

The 100%. The introduction of him to the presidency and to politics is a little murky, but at the same token, what we saw and what we've done research on, that was just to get him elected. Yeah. That was just the influence to get him in office. Yeah, once he got in there, it was like Once he got into office, he was trying to do things at least objectively for the for the greater good.

SPEAKER_02 29:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:14

He was trying to do things that was gonna make the world better.

SPEAKER_02 29:17

And not right, the world, not just the US. Correct. The world. And so to answer your question, I think between the military industrial complex and then the Federal Reserve, again, money, he wanted to he literally was shutting down the Federal Reserve. We weren't gonna use the Federal Reserve anymore. Essentially, you're taking money at the source. We were gonna print our own money. Yeah. Not the feds, and he pissed off the wrong people, which like our president right now, he he's trying to go after a lot of the same if you look at like what Kennedy was trying to do and what probably said he was gonna try to do, I there's a lot of shit that I don't agree with that he's doing, but there is some that I d I do. It's he's he's trying to go after a lot of the same things. Which hope it doesn't happen. I thought the f his first term he was gonna get taken out. Obviously. Oh, there's been a million two times he's already been shot at twice in his life at least twice. He's been attempt twice. I don't think it's done. Don't think it's done. We're not even a fucking year into him being in, and it's already like people either love him or hate him. There's no really in the middle with that, and we've already lost one conservative social media influ you know, social influencer with Charlie Kirk. True, like it's not going to get better. It it's I think it's gonna get worse before it gets better. And I think that like think about right now where we're at. Like, there's a lot of like that boiling pot that you were talking about with Kennedy, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 31:06

Kind of similar right now. Yeah, I mean you have the Israeli-Palestinian conflict going on, you have still have Russia and China.

SPEAKER_02 31:13

Still have Russia and China, you have Russia invading Ukraine. Look at France and they're like they're Ireland, like I said, England is getting overthrown, like the whole muzzle.

SPEAKER_00 31:22

There's a lot of pressure cooking going on for sure. You could actually make the argument that it's kind of the it's not the same thing, it's the same dynamic. Same dynamic. Yeah. There's a lot of things at stake that was being changed, and people don't like change. It's very scary, especially for the monetary. Like, the reason I asked you the question is because you and I sort of align on the same sort of tip. I think they saw dollar signs, yeah, and they saw those dollar signs going in the negative rather than the positive, and couldn't for whatever reason, it doesn't matter what the reason is, didn't want those dollar signs going negative. They had to see them go positive for whatever reason.

SPEAKER_02 31:58

I also think ego and they put a lot of time into planning these wars that were already.

SPEAKER_00 32:08

Yeah. From whatever angle somebody was trying to get out of it, and they didn't want the status quo to change. Everything was perfect, quote unquote, from whatever you know, whatever you're trying to gain out of the situation. Things were good for a lot of people. A lot of people in power.

SPEAKER_02 32:23

In power.

SPEAKER_00 32:24

And wanted that to stay the same. You don't change the status quo. It's the worst thing you could possibly do.

SPEAKER_02 32:30

Prize shareholders too.

SPEAKER_00 32:32

Oh, yeah. I mean, government contractors were going to benefit and all sorts of crazy shit. It's it's yeah, it's actually kind of crazy. But let's let's sort of fast forward. We we sort of went over the the stuff with JFK's background and all that kind of stuff. So let's fast forward to the day of the assassination. Let's talk about so November 22nd, 1963.

SPEAKER_02 32:54

Real real real quick. Yeah. Bay of Pigs. That whole thing, like, was one of the main player that was they had planned was that invasion. Just for viewers that don't know.

SPEAKER_00 33:06

He saw it as something that they shouldn't do.

SPEAKER_02 33:08

He said, like, we are not gonna go in there and invade. You're we're not gonna get air support. You're not gonna because RCIA was training Cuban refugees to go and overthrow. I'm just saying this for the viewers that don't know what happened. So the context matters. So like that was a huge and and it was a fucking disaster, by the way. I mean, huge disaster. So that pissed Kennedy off a lot, and that's when he really, I think, put his foot down on like, yeah, we're we're we're not doing this shit. I I want nothing to do with the CIA and all that. So go ahead.

SPEAKER_00 33:44

Sorry. No, you're good. No, the context is important, so I'm glad you brought that up because it all that backstory sorts of sort of leads up and segues into what we're talking about now. So I appreciate that. Yeah, no problem. Um, so the timeline would be like, you know, we would talk about the motorcade setup, how everything was sort of he was sort of what I remember from what we saw and what we sort of know about it, he was sort of in the middle of everything, obviously. It wasn't he was what the third or fourth car back or something like that.

SPEAKER_02 34:11

Yeah, and they they had to go around a turn, which they slowed down.

SPEAKER_00 34:14

So they slowed down and all that kind of shit, which actually coincides with the Chicago stuff. Chicago. That's interesting. Yeah, we'll get into that. But like the shots fired, there's always a question of like how many shots were fired, multiple, especially in the stuff that we saw, multiple people saying there could have been multiple shots based on what they know from being in warfare and hearing how guns sound and being military, you know, personnel and all that kind of shit. Um the trajectory of how he was hit. You brought up the the you know, falling forward type stuff, yeah, and all that kind of stuff. But there was a there was a disagreement between whether it was a backward shot or a front-facing shot. Like I said, from where he was hit. Was he hit in a six-story building? Was he hit on a you know, a hill, maybe a couple hundred feet from where he was?

SPEAKER_02 35:02

That kind of there's also they didn't mention it in this documentary, but in other ones that I've watched and articles I've read, supposedly they think the driver could have sh turned and shot when everybody was looking back at him through the seat and shot him there as well. Okay. Is another like either in in the stomach or head from that.

SPEAKER_00 35:29

I don't remember seeing anything about like because if he was shooting him from the seat, he would have shot him up.

SPEAKER_02 35:35

Well, like put his handgun right to the ch you wouldn't have seen it.

SPEAKER_00 35:41

No, what I'm saying is the trajectory of the ball. Oh, if he shot him in the head. If he shot him in the head, it would have had to been pointing up. Yeah, it's you know what I mean? Yeah, it's so like all that sort of sort of segues in like what we're talking about, but like also like the immediate chaos, like everybody heard a gunshot or multiple gunshots and was like, what the fuck just happened, and started panicking and all that kind of stuff.

SPEAKER_02 36:00

Well, there was a random person that got shot. It was a bunch of things.

SPEAKER_00 36:03

They hit like a ricochet or something like that, I think was what they said, or something. Somebody was hit in the in the crowd of the pedestrians and stuff that were watching the motorcade and watching him drive through Dallas and all that kind of stuff.

SPEAKER_02 36:14

Somehow he completely misses the automobile after nailing him.

SPEAKER_00 36:18

From I mean, the book's a positive, like I said, it was six stories up, but not only was it six stories up, but it was a distance. It was it was far. It wasn't far, I would say it was it was it was a distance from but with a scope.

SPEAKER_02 36:30

And he's an ex-military marine, you're not gonna miss that that bad.

SPEAKER_00 36:33

100%. But just like the the immediate chaos but in the Parkland hospital stuff that we're getting into, all the stuff with the autopsy. There's multiple reports, especially in the documentary we saw. Like if you guys haven't seen it, it's an Oliver Stone documentary on JFK. It's called JFK Through the Looking Glass. So I would definitely check that out. It sort of has a lot of the synopsis that we're talking about. We pulled a lot of information from there, like I said, that he and I didn't know. But the Parkland hospital stuff was crazy because that's where the vast majority of the cover-up, at least from an autopsy standpoint and body standpoint, took place. Well, I think the navel more than there. Well, I would I th I was gonna get to that, but I'm saying like the start of it?

SPEAKER_02 37:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 37:11

Yeah. Um, there were multiple instances of like doctors having to retract their statement of what they originally said, and all the documented proof that they had was flushed out and only timelines not right. It didn't it didn't sort of make sense, and you had people like signing pieces of evidence, aka the bullet that didn't coincide with the original timeline, and it was just weird. Very weird. It was just odd. But the the autopsy stuff I thought was crazy because if you see the autopsy photos in the Oliver Stone documentary, just a little bit of a PSA, it's pretty graphic. They show you know like brain matter and stuff like that. It's a little uncomfortable if you're not ready for it. If you guys are adults, please don't let your kids watch anything like that. It's it was pretty traumatizing even for the two of us. But a lot of the autopsy stuff didn't really coincide just in encompassing all of it, didn't really coincide with really anything having to do with the original timeline or his body or the or the the means of the assassination, anything. It didn't really match up at all. And and they also had um people that like weren't you would think they would want the best of the best in that profession to work on him and like be a part of it, and they had like it was weird just the random fucking people working on him and like overseeing stuff, and then like the thing that really like creeped me out about that whole ordeal was like his his appointed doctor, like the the physician that oversaw him as a president, yeah, was like a footnote in that documentary. Oh, yeah. He was in there for what, maybe a minute?

SPEAKER_02 38:55

Well, they said when they brought him to the Naval Institute that you had all his regular doctors and like all like the best of the best that work on all the high up people in Congress and all that. They're like an hour away, and none of them were called.

SPEAKER_00 39:15

Yeah, they weren't even like not even reached out to. Reached out to maybe for a second opinion or how he was as a person or him physically as a as just a human being, like all that kind of stuff was thrown out the window or under the rug. Yeah. Yeah, it's very weird. Very weird. Um but the other thing that I wanted to talk about is that the route of his motorcade was actually changed. Do you know anything about that?

SPEAKER_02 39:44

Honestly, no. I really don't know anything about that. It wouldn't surprise me though. Yeah. Because I think they changed it.

SPEAKER_00 39:50

And it all being orchestrated, it would make sense that he was on a route that but then again The Secret Service was very low. Well, that's the other thing we want to talk about too, is why the security was so relaxed. Like because they they they they either knew what was going on or had an inkling of something was going to happen based on how relaxed they were. Because, like I said, we talked about it earlier in the episode is that there were multiple attempts made on his life. Like they had documented proof, the Chicago thing, the Tampa thing. Right. I think there was one more, but I can't think of it right now. But there was documented proof that attempts had been made on his life. The crazy thing about the attempts made on his life is that the Chicago thing and the Dallas thing were so similar. Very similar. It was it was a I think it was a six or seven story building like they talked about before. It was in the same general location as when the shot was taken or multiple shots were taken.

SPEAKER_02 40:44

Well, they shut it, they they didn't end up going to Chicago. Well, right, he canceled it, right? He canceled it because of the four that lady rented out. They got a tip, yeah, that a lady had run it out.

SPEAKER_00 40:58

And only two of them were picked up, right?

SPEAKER_02 40:59

Or yeah, Cuban refugees that had guns or whatever, snipe shooter uh long-range shooters. They picked up two of them, um, and they like wouldn't say anything. They wouldn't give anything up.

SPEAKER_00 41:13

Yeah, it it they basic what they use the word stonewall. Yeah, they stonewalled. They basically they basically shut the hell up and didn't say anything about it. Couldn't get anything out of them. Uh so that's why they switched to Dallas. But yeah, that whole that whole scenario with the Chicago stuff, I had no prior knowledge of that at all. I had no idea that that was a thing.

SPEAKER_02 41:35

I mean, I I watched the Joe Rogan Oliver Stone interview, um, because Oliver Stone went on his show right before that documentary got released, so like I knew a little bit about those four guys, but not in the detail that was obviously in the documentary. What do you think them silencing everyone? Like people making statements and then all of a sudden like changing their shit.

SPEAKER_00 42:02

I mean, it's dispute, it's indisputable based on what we saw. They thought their life, right? All of that's if I if all of that is true, it goes so much deeper than just the government. You're you're influencing public opinion now. It's dangerous.

SPEAKER_02 42:17

Well, and they they s they destroyed the news film, the original news files, news files and all that.

SPEAKER_00 42:26

But like you take that stuff, you take testimony that's been reversed under oath, and it's just wild that all of this stuff was happening, and nobody was like, dude, he said something completely different. You have that, like you know what I mean? Like, yeah. Well whether whether it was whether it was brought up and swept under, that's I don't know enough about that to say whether it was or not. But at the same time, you would think that like You couldn't do it nowadays. If somebody came forth with the information, they were probably silenced too.

SPEAKER_02 42:57

100%.

SPEAKER_00 42:58

There's definitely people that hey dude, he just said something crazy as fuck, and you got it wrong. Like, that's like libel, that's that's a felony, you can't do that.

SPEAKER_02 43:08

Like I'm sure there are people that have been killed off.

SPEAKER_00 43:11

Yeah, I mean, like it's just crazy that all this stuff happened and then we're still examining it like it's new information.

SPEAKER_02 43:18

Like it was right there. I mean, look at look at the Charlie Kirk assassination, that was low security. They had lower security than they normally did.

SPEAKER_00 43:30

Well, his his his debates too were not they were very relaxed.

SPEAKER_02 43:34

Yeah. Just just by just by nature, but then the Trump one where he got shot in the ear right out here in Butler PA. Yeah, like that security detail is really weird.

SPEAKER_01 43:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 43:47

Because they had real low security, said that they couldn't put a shooter on top of the roof because it had uh too much of a slope, and that dude, that roof is flat, like super flat.

SPEAKER_00 43:58

Like well, if you want to. Talking about the Charlie Kirk thing, you're talking about the same thing. And we're talking about the JFK stuff, we're talking about the same thing. Yeah, he's from a neutral position. He's in a building that's obviously level, well, you would think it would be level, but a lot of weird shit that doesn't add up.

SPEAKER_02 44:13

Like the kid was 21 years old, had no social media history at all. They couldn't find any.

SPEAKER_00 44:17

I think the while he did have social media history, but I've never seen it documented. Was that he was talking with I believe it was his roommate. You're talking about the Charlie Kirk thing, right?

SPEAKER_02 44:26

No, I was talking about the the 21-year-old that um got at Trump and hit him. Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_00 44:32

I we were getting mixed signals. I thought you were talking because there was I've never seen it. I've never like dived into it and like looked it up to see the actual evidence, but apparently the stuff that was happening with the Charlie Kirk thing was he had communicated with his roommate through through Discord or his lover was at the end. Something like that. I don't remember the logistics of it. What matters is the evidence. Right. And it was a person that he confided in about possibly or carrying out the assassination of him on that day. Yeah. It was documented through Discord, either chat or voice activity, something like that. And that's what they used to throw at the person allegedly that killed him. Is that he had pre-planned it through that messaging app and then had carried it out. I think a couple days later. I don't remember the exact timeline.

SPEAKER_02 45:27

So you know how he went to Utah State? Yeah. Do you know that he was only there for I think it was like one semester? Do you know who has their main training at Utah State? The head, like the head training center for new recruits, CIA. Interesting. Like he's got ties to it. It gets really interesting in that one. We could do an episode on that. But anyway, back to back to JFK.

SPEAKER_00 45:56

Like, yeah, so we sort of covered like the the day it happened and what sort of the plausible reasons are for why it was such like a at least at the time and the couple days afterwards, let's say, let's just be let's be diplomatic in that sense, why it was so confusing of what happened. But let's talk about Oswald as a person, like sort of what he was all about to just sort of get the whole scope of the event. Yeah. Um so let's just talk quickly about his background. I know we sort of touched on the fact that he had connections to you know, had defected to the USSR and had Cuban ties with all the stuff he was doing with like the anti-Caster group and then the pro-castor group and all that kind of stuff, sort of playing both sides. I thought that was interesting.

SPEAKER_02 46:40

And he was in the Marine Corps and he was stationed at a Japan base that was heavily.

SPEAKER_00 46:46

I can't remember the name of the base, but yeah, it was like an ultra-secret, like one of them, one of, if not the most secret bases that he could have been in, and it was in Japan. I can't remember. That starts with an A.

SPEAKER_02 46:55

They're flying what U2 planes?

SPEAKER_00 46:57

U2 planes, and it was like a reconnaissance base. Or the CIA. Correct. Yeah. Um But the Texas School Depository where he worked, that whole timeline is really fucking weird. With the with the what was it, three witnesses, three female witnesses that would have passed him on the state wall and all that kind of shit. And they never saw him. They never saw him. The first person he saw on the way down apparently was the police officer that was weird. Said it took him two minutes to get down or whatever. Yeah, and it was and it was like a minute, and then you had the CIA and the FBI and all that kind of stuff changing the timeline to like plus a minute or something like that based on where he was.

SPEAKER_02 47:36

Several minutes for the women when really it only took him like less than a minute to get down there.

SPEAKER_00 47:44

Yeah. When they left. And then their testimonies were like, they were changed, or yeah, it's yeah, it's um weird. But the the arrest and the rest interrogation of heart uh Lee Harvey Oswald when he was actually arrested, talking about the fact that he had made it known that he was just a patsy. Interesting fact. He was just like a scapegoat for them to kill him and all that kind of shit. It's it's wild.

SPEAKER_02 48:08

The interesting fact, too, about Leahari Oswald being at that Japan base, the fucking Chicago guy.

SPEAKER_00 48:17

Oh, he was in the same unit or same platoon as him in Vietnam or whatever?

SPEAKER_02 48:21

At the same Japanese base?

SPEAKER_00 48:23

He wasn't the same base, he was at a different one, but he was in the same platoon or something like that.

SPEAKER_02 48:28

He had the U-2 planes and the whole spy thing, too.

SPEAKER_00 48:32

Yeah, they were both the three, I think biggest telling stuff between the three of them that's actually really eerie and creepy was that they were both at highly secretive Japan air bases for the US. Yes. Number two, they both had the same kind of reconnaissance aircraft aircraft at the facilities, and then they were both responsible for training Cuban refugees or exiles. And they both defected to Russia. I didn't know that one. I actually forgot about that one that makes that's actually a really good point. But do you think even as a military sniper or military trained personnel person or entity would be able to pull off those shots?

SPEAKER_01 49:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 49:18

You think so? With a scope, yeah. You think so? I think so. I think the whole slowing down and the changing of the the motorcade route and all that stuff probably helped. And that was the reason why they changed the route and all that kind of stuff to make it easier. Depending on who was responsible for it, because you could point to I mean, we saw the documentary, it was a flip-flop of people who were responsible for certain shit and covered stuff up and like all that kind of stuff. But I think the craziest thing apart about the documentary that we watched as well as the stuff that we did research on was how intricate it was.

SPEAKER_01 49:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 49:54

Like how down to a T, like you're you're threatening witnesses, you're you're changing testimony, you're changing autopsy photos, you're changing the autopsy as a whole.

SPEAKER_02 50:05

Like everything is just wrong. And like the Warren Commission, like reaching out.

SPEAKER_00 50:09

Well, that was like the whole thing I told you at the beginning of the episode, too, is that like he wasn't even tried during due process. They didn't even use the actual process of a jury of 12 of your peers and that kind of shit. They didn't do any of that.

SPEAKER_02 50:22

Well, he also said, I didn't do it. It wasn't me.

SPEAKER_00 50:27

Well, that's the thing, is that like that was the whole Patsy comment is that I was set up and it wasn't me. I like I happened to be at the right place at the right time for whoever was orchestrating this, but I didn't pull the trigger. But he was also assigned there.

SPEAKER_02 50:40

He was pulled from New Orleans.

SPEAKER_00 50:41

But that's what I'm saying is that he was put into a position where something happened. He was the fall guy. He was the fall guy that was in the right place at the right time. It made sense plausibly until they figured all of this shit out. Yeah. Because with the controlled chaos and everything that happened, nobody has time to make sense of any of that information. It's okay, dude was shot. We need to get to him, get him to a medical facility immediately. We don't have time to think about all that extra shit right now. Yeah, and obviously maybe that was the whole angle of the shooting was that people are gonna be so distraught, people are trying to know what the fuck is happening, and everybody's just gonna forget, and the whole like PTSD thing's gonna take effect, and everybody's gonna get wiped with the neuralizer from fucking men in black and forget everything.

SPEAKER_02 51:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 51:26

Because it happened so fucking fast.

SPEAKER_02 51:29

Right. And he runs into a movie theater.

SPEAKER_00 51:32

Yeah, like it's just like all of the stuff, like it makes sense and it's plausible that they would use the chaos of what happened to make sure everybody wasn't I don't want to say coherent, but like not of the right mind to make sense of everything that was happening at one time. It's a lot to take in.

SPEAKER_02 51:54

That's that's like an that which is interesting. Around the 60s, remember what was going on as well. MK Ultra. That's a psychological that's like psychological warfare.

SPEAKER_01 52:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 52:10

You know, we have Well, you're talking about you're talking about an event where you're literally twisting the narrative in every form or fashion that you possibly can to make it make sense for you. Like they were talking about the fact that they had medical examiners looking at his autopsy photos. This doesn't fucking make sense. Right. Where like where he was hit looked like well we're supposedly he was hit, and had been like reconstructed. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 52:36

And they drew in hair.

SPEAKER_00 52:38

Right. Like all of that stuff is just weird.

SPEAKER_02 52:40

And the photographer that took the pictures of the brain said that, like, yeah, I didn't take those.

SPEAKER_00 52:47

Like, those aren't I never took an under the stuff in the archives about his autopsy photos of his head and stuff. There were two sets of photographs. One was from below, I believe, and one was from above.

SPEAKER_02 52:58

Above, and the guy said he never took a blow shot.

SPEAKER_00 53:01

Right. Like it just it it's all sort of stuff that sort of flew under the rug that like either people told others what was happening and they covered it up, or nobody said a word and they just went with the narrative that they wanted to push.

SPEAKER_02 53:15

Yeah. And as far as like Oswald goes, like, like you said, he's the perfect fall guy because he does he, you know, on paper, people don't know that he was a CIA guy, so they just look at it on paper. Oh, he defected to Russia.

SPEAKER_00 53:30

Well, he's he's he's they painted him as a villain before he ever the ordeal ever took place. Right, and it was all orchestrated even from that point.

SPEAKER_02 53:37

And he he's he's he's working with these Cuban refugees, and you know he's an extremist.

SPEAKER_00 53:47

Because what they really this is actually wild. I wonder if since he was a part of two Castro groups, he was pro and anti. Oh yeah, so he's using a phone. So what would have happened was had it gone bad and he wasn't killed, they could maybe paint him as like a civilian that you get what I'm s you see what I'm saying? Oh yeah, he was fucked. Like he was between a rock and a hard place. He was either gonna be he was either gonna he was either gonna disappear into the cosmos and nobody was gonna nobody nobody was ever gonna know who he was, or he becomes the villain and the person that they can scapegoat into being the de facto for Russia, the the the person that because you because then this is where it gets wild for me. Is you would even be able to trace him back to the people in Chicago. Right. Did he train the snipers in Chicago and they just got caught? In Tampa? Oh, you get what I'm saying though? Like he was fucked.

SPEAKER_02 54:47

Was he how high up was he? Right. Was he actually like helping orchestrate this or was he just like uh were or was he just somebody that they picked that looked like two other people? Right.

SPEAKER_00 55:00

Based on what we know, right?

SPEAKER_02 55:02

And like we talked about the mafia earlier, you know. I think mafia was probably involved with the CIA because the CIA and Mafia were like fucking hand in hand. Yeah. Um like that's where like the whole Jack Ruby coming in. Well, that's what we're gonna get into next.

SPEAKER_00 55:19

That's actually a good segue. So Jack Ruby was if it anybody that doesn't know much about this, um Jack Ruby was actually the guy that silenced and ended up killing and assassinating Lee Harvey Oswald when he was Which was another public killing. Correct, it was another public assassination. It was on live TV. If I don't if not, it was yeah, it was on live TV. Um but you brought up Jack Ruby's mafia connections. Why don't you talk a little bit about that since I know you were sort of on the mafia tip for some of this too?

SPEAKER_02 55:51

Yeah, I don't know like super detail about it. I just know that he had connections to the mafia.

SPEAKER_00 55:56

He was a nightclub owner, was he not?

SPEAKER_02 55:58

I think he was a nightclub owner. So he what I my understanding is is that Jack was told to go silence Oswald so that he couldn't fucking talk and snitch because they were afraid that he was gonna spell it. He was gonna fucking yeah, he was gonna spill all the bullshit and that that they were gonna, you know, basically the media and reporters and like people were gonna like if we don't silence him now, there's a good chance that like the shit that we're doing with the autopsy and like all the people. Yeah, like it's gonna get fucked. Yeah. Here's you know how I mentioned the MK Ultra thing?

SPEAKER_01 56:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 56:43

Okay. The lead guy for MK Ultra, and I forget his name, I'll look it up in a minute. Did you know that that lead guy went and visited Jack Ruby in his prison cell and supposedly was like high dosing him with LSD to make him like all of a sudden, if you look into Jack Ruby's history, he like goes fucking bananas in prison. Like out of nowhere, we're seeing something like that.

SPEAKER_00 57:16

Like he had like a psychological profile that was like insanity, some crazy shit or delusional.

SPEAKER_02 57:20

So that same guy that was doing that to Jack was also the same guy that worked with Charles Manson with MKUltra. Yeah, because Charles Manson was an MK Ultra baby, his mom birthed him into that program.

SPEAKER_00 57:34

Interesting.

SPEAKER_02 57:35

So like that's a whole nother rabbit hole to go down like Blake. There's so much shit, especially at that time period. You know, like you look at I'm reading that book on Charles Manson and the CIA, that one that I told you about, and it's like really good. The same way that they saw Hennedy as a threat to the military industrial complex and the war and stuff like that, they saw the hippies as a threat because they were all about peace and love and no war. Yeah, it was a big move.

SPEAKER_00 58:06

It wasn't just a couple of people in a field doing some drugs.

SPEAKER_02 58:09

It was so there's actual actually proof that Manson never did LSD with those with his team, with his uh people, his congregation. He faked it, and because he was a part of the MKUltra training for the CIA, he actually used psychological uh manipulation to his followers, and what they wanted was people to fear hippies. So if they could get this group, this Charles Manson family of serial killer hippies, it'll fuck the whole hippie movement, which it kind of did. Um, so same type of what in Manson was the fall guy because he was a foster kid and like he had a fucked up childhood of the world. Oh, he spent most of his time in prison, in and out of yeah, like so, like same type of like easy guy to target. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_00 59:01

So different different circumstances, but same playbook. Just as damnable for sure. It's the same playbook. Yeah. So painting somebody as a villain even though they weren't just based on past record and all that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 59:13

So like so the like the Jack Ruby thing was just really interesting because he's like somehow fucking connected to that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, so yeah, I mean, Jack basically just went in there to silence. I mean, is that what you I mean, would you say that's probably what you think?

SPEAKER_00 59:27

Yeah, I mean, not to give any not to give any div any validity or like praise to Charles Manson, but at the same time, if you listen to the man talk, it he's it's a weird dynamic because you could also paint him as somebody that's sort of out there and doesn't sort of know what's going on and is sort of delusional and all that kind of stuff, but he pretty he knew if you sit down and watch his interviews or anything that he's ever done as far as public, you know, persona, a lot of what he says and a lot of his demeanor is rooted in at least subst at least you know substantial proof is l as far as like the way he viewed the world and what was going on and all that kind of stuff about us like killing the ozone layer and all that kind of stuff. And like well, he knew how the game worked. Well, right. I mean he saw he he put him he got into a situation where it was kind of survival at that point, I would think. Wouldn't you agree? Well, he was dude, the guy. Like he was trying to tell his peace, but everybody had already labeled him as a crazy nut and well and and all that kind of stuff.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:32

He got arrested like fucking a ton of times. Yeah. And they would just release him. Right. Like they weren't like they would bring him in and they would go to interrogate him, and then like somehow they got orders to just release him, which obviously came from CIA. Yeah, that I don't know about. That's more you than me, but I know he got fucking released like a shit ton of times. So there there was a LA detective, I think, that like just already had targeted Manson several times, but anytime he went to go like actually, you know, fucking interrogate him, somehow he's getting fucking released, and they never knew he never knew like who was doing it.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:16

Yeah. But I I know you wanted to get into because we had talked about it earlier about the Warren Commission and all that kind of stuff. Yeah. I know we got into it pretty in depth, but as far as that was concerned, you had talked about the magic bullet scenario and the theory of all that kind of shit where one bullet so t sort of took care of everything. I'm not a physicist, okay? I understand logic. Yeah. And I've fired a gun before and know what they do and how things work from a at least a at least a civilian standpoint.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:45

You've hunted.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:46

I've hunted, I've killed I've killed things, I've killed animals. Like obviously, like I I know how it works. I know the physics of what a bullet does. There's no way it's gonna pass through let alone two people and seven and a car seat, but it makes it essentially makes seven points of NPS. There's no fucking way.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:11

You're not shooting a deer in the neck and it's coming out its hind leg.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:14

No, like it doesn't from a from a logical standpoint, one bullet taking care of all of that and one shot, it doesn't make sense.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:24

Same people that say they believe that's like that's like you know they don't believe in aliens.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:31

Yeah, like it doesn't make sense. I mean, but that's become that's become another argument too that's become plausible and even documented as well as verified, is that there is intelligent life. Like it's I don't want to get too much off of a tangent, but like I said, like there are certain things that you can prove scientifically and physically that either make sense or don't make sense. Well it's either one of the two.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:55

We're living in a very disclosure on a lot of things like JFK, MLK, because the MLK assassination documents got released too. Okay. Um between like UFOs and ETs, assassination, MLK, like those all were within say this time period, you know what I mean? Where they're like where they're releasing stuff. Roswell happened, and like, you know, we've done episodes on that where you know everyone like kind of area fifty one was like where everyone put their attention on, right? When really like the bodies and the UFOs were taking to write Patterson Air Force Base and fucking which was the headquarters for Project Blue Book. Right. Which Kennedy also Kennedy wanted to disclose that, by the way. He wanted to disclose the UFO phenomena and it and tell everybody that there was life. That's why he wanted to go to the moon. Right.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:55

Because he was big for the space races, I remember.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:58

And there were he knew there were bases on the moon. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:01

And he was gonna disclose to everybody, which is another reason why that was the whole reason the cold war happened in the first place, because they were racing to space to see who would have domain over what's found and all that kind of shit. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:11

But but there there was a meeting between I think it was Truman, I think it was Truman first, and then Eisenhower with ETs. And like Eisenhower's granddaughter, she was talking about Call of Duty before, and that's it.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:25

I don't know if you remember Black Ops. Remember the first one? Yeah, yeah, yeah. When they did the whole storyline with JFK and all that kind of stuff. It was interesting. Yeah. But um, yeah, the just getting back to the Warren Commission stuff. So, like, we talked about the trajectory, talked about the wounds earlier with the autopsy reports and the physics and all that shit. Yeah. I think we can both agree that it just doesn't add up. Oh no, it just doesn't make sense.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:49

They they dude they just and anyone that questioned it got like threatened, obviously. Yeah. They got threatened.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:57

Or changed their testimony, you know, whatever.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:59

Because they were threatened like their family and shit like that, which is what they do.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:02

Right. Yeah, there was a couple there was a couple of reports in the uh documentary that we watched that were talking about the fact that people were pushed up against walls and intimidated by Secret Service and all sorts of crazy things.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:14

The guy that was getting interviewed that like put his fucking pistol on the table. Oh, yeah, that was wild. And was like, Who the fuck are you working for? He's like independent journalists.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:24

Right, like, dude, I'm just asking questions like why the hostility, but yeah, it all it all sort of circles back to the fact that people had stuff to lose over what happened, and like I said, the chaos of the incident I think they thought would cover up a lot of the bullshit. And people just they didn't take it as granted and they wanted answers to what really happened.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:46

Well, I think the other big thing too is this is sixty three. I don't think they ever thought the internet was gonna be a thing where you could get public information. Yeah. We're talking about

SPEAKER_00 1:06:00

The early sixties. I mean we're barely talking about color television at that point.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:05

Right. So like I don't you know that never went through their head because for so long they had been able to here's the playbook of how to cover this shit up. Right. We're not gonna have to worry about people fucking being able to go into the National Archives on their phone, let alone like you would have had to have flown to DC. Had the proper clearance, let alone had the clear the top secret clearance, and then go through the gatekeepers there.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:32

About to say had the stones to actually go up the hierarchy and not know who you're gonna piss off and not yourself get fucking killed or threatened.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:40

Like now it's so easy to get this shit.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:44

Well, you know what the Freedom of Information Act and all that bullshit now that they didn't have and that wasn't even a thing. And then Trump just did the executive orders that release more files, so like But uh the two questions I had about the the the Warren um the Warren Commission and all that kind of stuff was I think we already touched on it to sort of see where you sit on it. Why do you think they rushed the investigation of that and why do you think they destroyed so many things?

SPEAKER_02 1:07:10

Cover it up. Yeah. I mean, it would it's to cover it up. I mean, you said it earlier, it was a fucking panel of like no judges.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:19

It was just like I want to say it was like congressmen or like people that were involved in the government.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:24

Probably.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:25

Like it wasn't like I said, it wasn't a due process trial for him. It was just the guy's guilty, and you know, we're not gonna sugarcoat it, and then that's this it is what it is.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:37

Right. And then like the destroying of the files, it's like or losing. They like destroyed files and were files that were lost. Like, really, you're gonna misplace the files. There was file.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:49

There was some whiteout that I dripped over it by mistake.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:52

Like, yeah. It was some real bullshit.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:56

Like it just doesn't it a lot of it is just very, very, very, very, very shady. I don't believe in coincidences. Well, that's the thing, is that with like I can't remember what the saying is, is like it once is a coincidence, two is you know you get what I'm saying? Yeah. Like there's too many parameters, there's too many things that don't make sense for it to be a coincidence. It's tough to sit here and say, like, all it just happened by happenstance.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:23

Like you could fuck up once, you could fuck up twice.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:26

Right. Like like once is a mistake, two is understandable, and three is like, dude, really? Becomes a pattern. Right. Like exactly, 100%. Come on. Um But the last topic I think that we should probably get into, or last couple topics. I want to get into the like the alternate theories of like who invented, like, like we said, we we got into the whole CIA involvement. We got into the the the mafia retaliation with the Jack Ruby shit. Um the military industrial complex that wanted him out, just too much going on. He was trying to change narrative status quo, all that sort of culminated into what happened. Yep. Um foreign intelligence based on what happened with Oswald and all the stuff that they were able to sort of tie to his name to make him scapegoat and all that kind of shit. And Kennedy was doing a lot of shit with France and Egypt and like the the multiple shooter and the grassy knoll thing. So they were trying to point into different things rather than just one thing. Yeah. That kind of stuff. And then the Lyndon B. Johnson succession stuff. Oh, like the ulterior motives of that whole thing.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:36

That well, there's a like I know that there's there's a lot of people and a lot of evidence that kind of shows like LBJ probably was behind it because Kennedy didn't even like LBJ. The reason why he picked LBJ as his running mate was to win the South. That's why he picked them. It was kind of like it was kind of like Trump with Pence.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:02

Like, you know what I mean? Like, that didn't really make a lot of sense other than he wanted to get like the super fucking far right, right? Like the the he wanted to get the religious the the the real religion vote, yeah, you know, the Christian vote, and then like far right.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:18

Well that was like the whole thing with the I saw a really interesting thing, and I forget who did it, but it was a you had spoken about Charlie Kirk before. There was a it was either a documentary or a segment that I can't remember who did it, it was something media, and they did a you know, they do those like debate things where like one person, whether it's Ben Shapiro or Charlie Kirk or Jordan Peterson or Piers Morgan or whoever the case whoever the person is the electric figure on one side of the issue, essentially.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:52

They put him against like 20 oppositions. You ever see that? You know what I'm talking about? I'll have to show you one if you've never seen it. It's actually really fucking cool.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:00

I don't think I have.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:00

But essentially what it is is it was Charlie Kirk against 20 liberals. Which, if anybody knows anything about Charlie Kirk, he was very conservative. Oh, yeah. Obviously, he was very instrumental, if not the most instrumental in getting Trump elected.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:14

Him and Rogan and For the young crowd, that's why probably why they wanted him out.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:21

Long story short, essentially, the topic came up and was uh about DEI and the fact that Kamala Harris was appointed vice president or a vice presidential candidate for the sheer fact that she was African American at that time. Biden apparently, through research that I've done, after I saw the documentary, he actually wrote in his I can't remember if it's like presidential, like basically documents stating through his presidential campaign that he was going to anoint a presidential or vice presidential candidate of a black female. And that's the only reason that she got elected. I thought that was a really interesting conversation. Yeah. Um but it goes along with the same thing you were talking about LBJ with Lyndon B. Johnson being to win the South. It's the same kind of thing from a different perspective. Yeah. You get what I'm saying? So I thought that was kind of interesting. I wanted to sort of bring that point up because it sort of coincides with Yeah, like it's not actually who you want. It just looks like some way that's going to get you ahead. Essentially. You think. Well, right. Right. But he didn't, you know, you never know how a presidential election well, quote unquote. You never know how a president you never know how a presidential election is gonna go, but at the same time, you want to have as many gun, you know, you want to have as many tricks in your bag as you can.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:39

Yeah. And I mean it you know, you plan and you game plan, like you have a strategy when you're running for office, and like, you know, do I think a lot of it's rigged? Yes. Do I think that votes do matter? I will say, with this last election, with Trump getting in, I did not think they would let him win again. I thought they would try to pull some shit again, and the fact that he even got in made me think, all right, maybe votes do matter a little bit more than I thought. But I mean to go back to LBJ, like he if you look at what he did like as soon as he got sworn in, Kennedy, I think two or three days, or maybe the morning of the assassination, signed to get rid of the Federal Reserve. You know the first thing LBJ did when he got fucking uh anointed. They reinstated that. He fucking yeah, he got rid of that. And then he got he got rid of the the motion to get rid of the CI. And then we we get into fucking instead of pulling out of Vietnam, it's like fucking full throttle ahead. Everything that that Kennedy did, LBJ was a complete like here's my thing. How could you say that LBJ didn't have a role in this if they're supposed to be working together and they're that different in views and that's different in jobs?

SPEAKER_00 1:14:16

What we saw in the research you and I did, I mean it seems like they were opposite on almost every issue, yeah. Every issue.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:21

So how do you have that as your running mate?

SPEAKER_00 1:14:23

Yeah, uh maybe differencing of opinion works. I I don't know. You know, uh this is the thing, and the one thing I'll say about that specifically is that sometimes differencing of opinion can give you a lot of perspective. If you have two opposite sides of the desk, sometimes it makes you think about shit differently. Like you and I, for example, we've been friends for you know, you know, 20 years or so. Oh yeah. We have differencing of opinion. 100%. We don't think the same about a some stuff, a lot of the stuff you and I pretty much I mean, just doing the podcast, you and I align align on a lot of shit. Like because we just look at the facts, we're very logical people. Yeah. But at the same time, like I said, that would be the only that would be the only thing I could think of towards a positive that would be for somebody that disagrees with you on everything because they're gonna give you the other side of the table. But in that same breath, what you're talking about literally reversing every single well, it seems like every single policy that JFK wanted to implement seemed to go the other way.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:27

And he and LBJ was big ties to the CIA, right?

SPEAKER_00 1:15:30

Like and Kennedy got rid of those top three guys in the CIA who LBJ was But that brings in another question, is because we're talking about the conspiracy area and everything. Do you think he was a plant?

SPEAKER_02 1:15:41

LBJ? Yeah, yeah. You think so?

SPEAKER_00 1:15:44

I mean, I think he was a part of the Do you think that was from jump, or do you think that they like got to him later? Or what do you think about that? Do you think they saw what was happening?

SPEAKER_02 1:15:53

It was like, dude. So if you remember in that documentary, all the guys at the CIA, the the fucking guy that was the head of the CIA, he thought when Kennedy was running that he was gonna go with all these plans. Remember? Yeah. So he gets elected, and then he's like, Whoa, we're not doing that. And that's when they were like, fuck. You know? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:19

Like they thought he was they thought he was gonna be for bay of pigs and all the stuff that was set up, and then he went the other way, and they're like, Oh shit, damage control.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:27

They said because he was so young that they thought he was just gonna go, like, oh they used the word, didn't they use the word pliable?

SPEAKER_00 1:16:33

Yeah, good old boy network. Like he was flexible and like they could have manipulated him and all that kind of stuff. That's interesting. Yeah, so I mean Yeah. It could have gone either way, whether he was a plant first and foremost, or they saw what was happening and they probably said like needed some damage control.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:48

I think what happened was is that yeah, Kennedy needed to win the South, but also LBJ was probably a plant in there for like, hey, just in case this doesn't go the way we want, he's gonna get taken out, you're gonna get put in there, and then you're gonna make sure that these initiatives get pushed forward.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:13

Yeah. And he just pushed back again.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:16

Does that make sense?

SPEAKER_00 1:17:17

100%. But I know we wanted to get it, we sort of talked about the witness inconsistencies, we talked about sort of the media media narrative when it all came out and all that kind of shit. I guess the biggest thing for me was the cultural impact of all this stuff, especially since it's come out. The cultural impact of everything, um, and then the loss of trust just with government in general. How do you feel about that? Like the loss of trust? Yeah, like the loss of trust, the the cultural impact that it's had, not only from the assassination point of view, but what's happened after with all the cover-ups and all that kind of shit. So where do you I want to get your viewpoint on that? Because I again, as I said throughout the episode, I think you and I sort of are gonna align on that tip as well. I don't think it's really a question, but I want to hear your viewpoints on it.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:08

Dad had a really great saying, We're from the government, we're here to help. You never want to hear those words. Like, you just you don't trust the government. There's been so much. Yeah. And I think that as the years have gone on, the government still uses that fucking playbook. But like we said earlier, like now there's the internet.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:36

You can't just let alone before you can't manipulate it.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:41

You can't turn it off, you can't turn it off. And now with podcasts and like think about like Joe Rogan, Tucker Carlson, like all those guys, there's no narrative. You don't have CNN and Fox and MSNBC, who are essentially all owned by the same people, controlling the narrative. Now there's no narrative. Right. You know, like I'm sure Tucker and Rogan and Candace Owens and like all these podcasters, when Charlie Kirk got taken out, they probably went fuck. If they took him out, like they got a big fucking bigger voice than Charlie.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:44

So I mean it like that JFK assassination, you you can feel it nowadays because the shit is like the modern I I wanted to touch on one thing because you're sort of talking about like modern day whistleblowers. Yeah. Like people that are bringing stuff to light that hasn't been seen for however long.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:04

You look at somewhere like you and I had talked about, I think on a previous ep episode, you'd asked me about Edward Snowden.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:10

Talk about a man that was slandered and is literally living in exile. I can't remember where he's living. He's living in exile somewhere. He's in Russia. Is he in Russia? I believe so. I don't know that for sure. We might fact check that too, but like that man's life was liter literally destroyed for uncovering government secrets that were they were spying on us and 100%. But what like all of this deters people from coming to light about stuff that they've experienced or that they've been privy to. So not only are you changing the narrative what's happening, you're changing the plausible evidence of what happened. So you're you're controlling not just the narrative, the story, or you're controlling the facts about the story.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:56

Is it Russia? Is it Russia?

SPEAKER_00 1:20:58

Yeah. But it's it starts to become this all-encompassing phenomenon where you're taking the truth and you're setting it aside and saying, you know what? Close enough. People will believe that. That's what happened with the JFK stuff. You had literally medical records being changed, yeah, stuff not being documented, stuff, people retracting their statements, you had people not signing off on medical documents.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:30

Like And if you came forward and said something, you were a conspiracy theorist. You were nuts. How many conspiracy theories have turned out to fucking be true?

SPEAKER_00 1:21:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:43

From some point of view, some form of that's what kind of like it's like I don't trust anything that the government says or does. Fuck, I don't trust half of what anybody, like even medical now, because of the whole COVID shit. And now there's even more shit coming out with the vaccines and like the heart, like it acting like that and like yeah, it chill the effects that it's having on children that they told us that, oh, there was, you know, there was no harm in this, there was no blah blah blah. And like I remember my doctor at the Cleveland Clinic before I moved out here. Went to the Cleveland clinic, and he suggested that I get the COVID vaccine. And I said, you know, I said, uh here, I'll ask you this. What are some of the long-term risks and side effects? He said, Oh, well, we we don't have the the study for that, but it's fine. You you have nothing to worry about. And I said, How do you know? I would have said one simple word. What question? He said, You ready for this? He said, You you don't have to worry, just trust me, like, you'll be fine. I said, I got a question for you. If something happens to me, can I sue Johnson and Johnson or whoever? And he's like, No. I said, Okay. I said, if I would have came to you three years ago and I said, I'm thinking about getting this vaccine that's never that has no long-term studies, no real testing has ever been done on this. It just came out six months ago. Would you have said, Yeah, go for it? And he looked at me and he he said, I no, probably not. I said, Okay, cool. When there's ten years of studies done and and I'm getting sick all the time, maybe I'll consider it. Best decision I ever made was not getting.

SPEAKER_00 1:23:46

I think I got one booster and called it quits after that. I did it, I did it for sake of my father.

SPEAKER_02 1:23:51

I didn't even do it because of me.

SPEAKER_00 1:23:52

I got one round and said, I'm not doing this.

SPEAKER_02 1:23:55

All they wanted was to get fear in everybody.

SPEAKER_00 1:23:57

And then you get into the whole conversation with the lockdowns and all that kind of but it's the same shit, Blake, because what they do is they're talking about control chaos.

SPEAKER_02 1:24:08

Anyone that questions it, what were you?

SPEAKER_00 1:24:09

No, you're not even there, but like you're talking about people that like COVID was a panic state worldwide. They locked, like literally locked you down. I think I was in Pennsylvania the day it happened, and my dad called me. He was like, dude, you gotta get home. Like something's going on. What do you mean something's going on? It was, it was, it was so like abrupt.

SPEAKER_02 1:24:34

Dude, I was on a college football practice field for spring practice. We were like three days into spring came out.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:41

That's what I'm talking about with the control chaos stuff. Like they sprung this on people immediately. Yeah. Like the day it happened, the day it went live, yeah, it was everywhere. And and and your people were scared scared to be shinless. They didn't know what to do.

SPEAKER_02 1:24:59

Yeah. And that's my point. And you're finding out now that there's a lot of shit that was covered up and lied, and Fauci definitely fucking lied. The CDC lied. Like medical people that we trust with our health fucking lied. Guess what? I don't trust fuck. I barely trust my doctors. Because especially because now we find out that they were getting paid every time one of their patients got a fucking vaccine, they were getting kickbacks.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:25:33

And like all the the opioid epidemic with oxycotton, with all that, they were getting fucking paid and kicked back. So they were getting they were pushing these doctors to get people hooked on heroin.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:45

Yeah. For sure.

SPEAKER_02 1:25:47

So how and and like the COVID thing is relatively, I mean, Blake, it's only five years ago. If we're finding out this much shit 60 plus years later about Kennedy, what are we gonna find out about that? Yeah, what are we gonna find out about Charlie Kirk? We're finding shit out about Charlie Kirk right now that like that fucking guy couldn't have disassembled that fucking rifle that quick.

SPEAKER_00 1:26:11

Yeah, I did see that. I see us I saw something, I think it was on TikTok or maybe Instagram, but they were talking about like it was like a they did a whole it was a Navy SEAL or something like that taking apart a rifle, and it took them almost two or three minutes to take it fully apart. And that's a man that's that like we're talking about a man that's trained, that's seen the weapon before, knows how it works, how to disappear. Not a 20-something you're right. Right, exactly. And then you talk about the whole panic, you know, the adrenaline rush that they talked about, the fact that he wouldn't have been able to do it, like it was the stuff to disassemble the exact because I think the guy in the video actually used the exact model of the rifle he did that was used in that shooting, and he was having trouble as a calm individual that hadn't just shot somebody. Right. Like all of that shit sort of plays into all that and it's it's it's it's it's interesting.

SPEAKER_01 1:27:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:27:04

Um I thought to answer your question, like I think it's just it doesn't get any better.

SPEAKER_00 1:27:15

Yeah, it's damning to pretty much anybody involved or not or semi-involved.

SPEAKER_02 1:27:19

The government hasn't helped themselves. Yeah, for sure. They haven't helped, they just keep fucking up and and lying more about shit. Yeah. And nobody's ever held accountable. That's the problem. Yeah, it's on both sides. Look at fucking Nancy Pelosi, okay, and her husband with with the stock trading, the insider trading, yeah, and Democrats and Republicans do it. All these fucking people go into Congress and they're career politicians, and then they're able to get insider information and vote on this shit and then buy shares. And if you and I had that information, we'd go to jail for it. But because they're in Congress, they can't.

SPEAKER_00 1:27:58

I mean, that's the least of your world. With all this shit.

SPEAKER_02 1:28:01

They can fucking do it, no problem.

SPEAKER_00 1:28:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:28:05

Like, you wonder why we don't trust the body.

SPEAKER_00 1:28:08

Well, the ties are so deep, and you know, people look at me and question the reason why I, you know, we talked about this during the documentary and question me why I don't vote.

SPEAKER_01 1:28:18

Right.

SPEAKER_00 1:28:19

I mean, how many instances can we point to where let's not say I'm correct, but at least I got something something going on. You know what I mean? Like I think all of this cover-up bullshit, all this stuff about people changing testimony and changing the narrative and all that kind of stuff.

SPEAKER_02 1:28:35

Like we put those people in power. We put those people in office. That's why it's important to vote. But the problem is that people just vote for the same fucking people over and over again, and they don't do any fucking research. They're lazy, they don't pay attention to it until it's a week before, two weeks before election time, maybe a month before. Most people don't fucking pay attention to it, and then they're just like, oh, this is a Republican, or oh, this is a Democrat. I'm just gonna vote for them. They don't look at what they've done, they don't do their research because they're too busy watching fucking dancing with the stars or Love is Blind or the fucking football game. They don't pay attention to it. So these fucking people just stay in power in congr like Yeah, and don't get challenged and all that kind of stuff. So it's it's our fault.

SPEAKER_01 1:29:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:29:27

Because like, yeah, like manipulating the presidential election probably easier than you think, but like the local levels here where there's so mu so many different people, that's like on us. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:29:43

Yeah, to a certain degree. To an extent. To an extent. Well, the last couple of questions just to sort of finish up, and then we'll sort of get into sort of what we thought about the whole ordeal going with the Warren Commission and the assassination and the Harvey Oswald stuff, and then the covering up of the autopsy and all that bullshit just sort of culminate the whole episode. I guess the two big questions I guess to ask are do you think it was a coup? You think it was just pushing somebody out of power and they got to a point where it had to happen? Probably. You think so?

SPEAKER_02 1:30:17

I mean probably. Like with my with what I think with LBJ and all that and with the CIA, yeah, I was they saw something going way, way off the status quo and had to reset everything. I think there were I think there were a ton of people involved.

SPEAKER_00 1:30:36

Well, not only was there a ton of people involved, there was a lot of parameters involved. Like it was very intricate. Like I kept telling you during the documentary, like, this is getting so deep, it's yeah, like insane.

SPEAKER_02 1:30:49

Yeah, it was really crazy. Yeah. It kept getting cra it kept getting crazier and crazier.

SPEAKER_00 1:30:55

Like the autopsy stuff, like the autopsy stuff. I think the craziest things that we saw, the autopsy stuff was really eye-opening. The three different people they had, including Oswald that they had profiled. I didn't know about any of that. I thought that was really interesting.

SPEAKER_02 1:31:11

Yeah, I didn't know about that.

SPEAKER_00 1:31:13

That essentially they got three people from three different instances that were, like I said, if you saw them walking down the street and took a quick glance, they look identical.

SPEAKER_02 1:31:23

Yeah. Did you ever s watch the uh the movie 112263? Oh. So it was based off the Stephen King book that he wrote, and it's about the JFK assassination. What's his name from uh Seth Rogan's old buddy who he's not friends with anymore? What's his name? Oh, I don't know. No, you know him. He was in uh Pineapple Express, long haired dude, the drug dealer.

SPEAKER_00 1:31:47

Oh, James Franco?

SPEAKER_02 1:31:48

Yeah, so James Franco's the main character in that. Um, and he finds like this like time warp through this like diner. One of his buddies, one this guy who owns this diner, like, I'm doing a really bad job of this, but he basically like found a time portal in like this closet in his diner, and it transports him to the same time period. It's like I think three years, four years before the assassination. So this guy's been going back in time to like try to prevent the assassination from happening, but then he ends up like getting sick and gets cancer, and like James Frank, he like basically tells James Franco, his character, that like it's up to you to like go and stop so the whole show move it's a show, it's a serious well, no, I think it's a movie or a show, whatever. It it's him trying to stop Lee Harvey Oswald, but he has to kind of get close, like monitor Lee for a few years and like get set up and like he meets his girl, there is a love story involved in it and stuff too, but like it was actually that was actually like a really good one. Interesting. Stephen King did a pretty good like story plot with with this. Sorry, I know that was a tangent that wasn't a good one. No, you're good.

SPEAKER_00 1:33:12

That's I didn't know that that was a Stephen King story. That's actually pretty interesting.

SPEAKER_02 1:33:16

It was it was pretty good.

SPEAKER_00 1:33:17

So the last question I guess that we'll end with before we get into sort of like what we might add as like a poll or something on the episode to sort of get people's feedback was will we ever know the full truth of what happened? Do you think it's ever gonna come out like the Roswell stuff? Where we know that like bodies were covered and the intricacies of what happened and why it was covered up and all that kind of shit. Do you think we'll ever actually know what happened from a from a full standpoint?

SPEAKER_02 1:33:45

Probably once everyone's dead that was involved.

SPEAKER_00 1:33:50

Yeah. I I would tend to agree with you. I think that it's gonna be what we have declassified is a piece, but as far as the whole pie, I think that's gonna take a while.

SPEAKER_02 1:34:02

It's like the it's like the disclosure for extraterrestrials and like all the the crashed UFOs, like if Steve Jobs and these guys got access to that technology and had a jump start over these other companies, like that gets into like lawsuits and attorneys. So like it's one of the reasons why they're not gonna do it and like religion. Think about like the val like it'll k they say it would kill religion. Yeah. Which I d I have a disagreement with that, but like you know, it's it's just they're gonna wait till everybody that was involved is gone. So that way when they disclose it people aren't gonna go to jail. Because you're who are you gonna put in jail? They're all fucking dead. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_00 1:34:58

Yeah, a hundred percent.

SPEAKER_02 1:34:59

You know? I mean, you're gonna piss off some family members and their family name might not be as you know like there's a pretty good pretty good evidence that Bush Sr. was possibly the guy that shot him from the grassy knoll. Because he was in the fucking CIA FBI, uh one of them, and he was high up and supposedly like helped orchestrate that takeout was Bush Sr.

SPEAKER_00 1:35:27

Yeah, I remember them saying something about that in the documentary too.

SPEAKER_02 1:35:31

Yeah, so like the Bush name will get fucking which Bush name, by the way, Junior's grandfather, so senior's father, I believe it was. The Bush family held back the Nazi Party.

SPEAKER_00 1:35:44

Interesting.

SPEAKER_02 1:35:45

Just like Henry Ford, you know, Ford built the fucking engine for the Panzer, right? Like, it's people are gonna there's there's gonna be like you said, you probably aren't gonna get the whole pie.

SPEAKER_00 1:35:58

Yeah, I think they're gonna they're gonna drill they're gonna do it in direction.

SPEAKER_02 1:36:02

I think we're gonna get more. We will get more. 100%. But I also be slated in segments and but and also like how much can they release because they destroyed so much shit.

SPEAKER_00 1:36:14

Right, that's true. That's true. But as we sort of end the episode, I think we sort of can both agree that there's a lot of gray area that still needs to be mapped out and uh fleshed out. But I think we can both agree that it doesn't just point to just a somebody getting shot and killed. There's a lot more to it than that. But yeah, I mean uh you guys can draw your own conclusions. Like I said, uh you said it was JFK through the looking glass was the name of the the uh documentary. It's by Oliver Stone. So if you guys want to check that out and sort of you know see for yourselves what we've sort of been talking about. Um we also did a lot of accidental research too. So not just the documentary, just what we know from you know growing up and being in our you know mid to late 30s, we sort of have an idea of what happened and that kind of stuff. So you guys can draw your own conclusions, like like I said, like I say, pretty much every episode that we do. We don't want to make your decisions for you. We want you guys to take the information and dissect it just like we've done for the past you know hour and a half, almost two hours. So uh make sure to follow us on Obscurecast if you guys haven't already. We have an Instagram account which is at ObscureCast, also an X account at Obscurecast.com. If you guys want to tweet at us um or throw us a message, even on Spotify or anything like that, the comments. We'd love to hear from you guys about what we should talk about next. Uh these podcasts, I think I can speak for Dano and myself, that they're never about finding the end all be all truth, it's just examining the facts that are in front of us and trying to make sense based on what we've gone through in our lifetime and what we know for certain.

SPEAKER_02 1:37:53

And hearing hearing each other's opinions on different things.

SPEAKER_00 1:37:57

Yeah, I mean, we we delved into a lot of different stuff that wasn't just JFK stuff. We delved into a lot of stuff that has to do with even what's going on right now. Politics and Yeah, I mean it's all uh it's sort of all encompassing type of episode where we don't necessarily want to see history repeat itself, but at the same time it seems like it's doing a lot of the same things only you know 60, 70 years later. So it's it's eerie how history can sort of repeat itself and sort of wear a different mask, that kind of thing. But like I said, make sure to follow us on socials. Like I said, at ObscureCast. You can find us both on Instagram and X, and we appreciate you guys for listening. I know we haven't put out an episode in a while. We told you guys that it was gonna be sort of hit or miss on the uh holiday season, but we'll try to start putting pumping them out as quick as we can for you guys to make sure that you guys are up to snuff on what we're doing and all that kind of shit. So appreciate you guys listening. Dave, you got any final thoughts? Uh I had a really good time doing this episode. Yeah, I think it was a lot of fun. We examined a lot of stuff we didn't think we'd get into, but that's the yeah the nature of our relationships, the nature of our podcast.

SPEAKER_02 1:38:59

So also uh another good one for everybody to watch. Blake and I just watch at that age of disclosure. Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:39:06

That was actually pretty cool. I think we touched on it on a previous episode, didn't we?

SPEAKER_02 1:39:10

It was coming out before it was coming out on my birthday.

SPEAKER_00 1:39:14

It was one or two episodes ago, something like that. Yeah. So like I said, make sure to follow us on uh make sure to follow us on socials. And if you guys have anything you guys want us to talk about, delve into. As long as it's not crazy out of pocket, we'll get into it. Hope you guys enjoyed the episode. Talk to you guys soon. Bye.